Ogden at Green Lake
Fur Trade Utensils and Storage displayed at HBC replica Fort Langley
So let us continue Peter Skene Ogden’s story of his time in the North West Company in the years before 1821, when the two companies merged. In the first post of this series, we found Ogden at the NWC post at Lac Ile-a-la-Crosse, on the headwaters (more or less) of the Churchill River. The information in the last post was, for the most part, taken from the HBC’s Peter Fidler’s Journal. But Fidler has now left the HBC post on Lac Ile-a-la-Crosse, and so we have to find a new source for the information.
We left Ogden following Peter Fidler’s boats away from Ile-a-la-Crosse. When the NWC canoes reached Frog Portage they left Fidler alone and descended the Sturgeon-Weir River to the North Saskatchewan by way of the NWC post at Cumberland Lake. Once past Lake Winnipeg, they paddled up the Winnipeg River to Lac la Pluie, and returned home to Ile-a-la-Crosse by the old NWC route they had used coming out. Presumably Ogden spent two more years at the Ile-a-la-Crosse post. In 1814 he was placed in charge of the Nor’Westers Green Lake post, on the Beaver River, 100 miles south and west of Ile-a-la-Crosse.
In June 1811, when Fidler left the HBC’s Ile-a-la-Crosse post, their Green Lake post was also abandoned and likely destroyed by the NWC men. In August 1815, Joseph Howse was sent to Lac Ile-a-la-Crosse to re-establish the HBC post, and Samuel Black opposed him in the same manner as he had opposed all other HBC men. A violent argument that occurred on February 14, 1815, left several men dead — one NWC Canadien lost his life in the quarrel, one HBC man died on the spot, and two others were mortally wounded. Here is how James Bird, of Edmonton House, reported the news of that argument:
A fatal argument had taken place in Feby. last between Mr. Howses Men headed by Mr. Johnstone, and six of the North West Company’s Men headed by Mr. Black in which one Canadian was killed, Mr. Johnston was also killed and two of his Men mortally wounded.
When spring came, Howse withdrew the HBC men from their Lac Ile-a-la-Crosse post and returned to York Factory. Colin Robertson described Howse’s abandonment of the post as shameful, but others thought it was a prudent move that would prevent further deaths.
But that didn’t mean that they would not still send men in to keep the fort! In 1816, John McLeod was given the charge of the HBC’s Lac Ile-a-la-Crosse, and met such opposition from Samuel Black and the NWC men that he was forced to take shelter at Carlton House in April 1817. This is the same John McLeod who was later in charge at the Kamloops post in 1826, and who led out the first York Factory Express to Hudson Bay. After him (I think) came Chief Trader John Clarke. If Clarke served two seasons at Fort Superior (the HBC post now on Lac Ile-a-la-Crosse), he must have been there from 1819 to 1821. By that time, Peter Skene Ogden had long crossed the Rocky Mountains into the Columbia district.
But before all that happened, in 1814 Ogden found himself assigned to the Green Lake Post. Green Lake and River was a tributary of the Beaver River which flowed from the West into the south end of Lac Ile-a-la-Crosse. On Green Lake itself were two posts, an HBC post (burned down when Robert Sutherland left with Peter Fidler), and that of the North West Company. The original HBC post had been built on the North side of Green Lake sometime before 1795. The NWC post, built sometime before 1798, stood on the east shore of the same bay that the HBC post stood upon. If Ogden was placed in charge of the Green Lake post in 1814, and stayed there until 1818, he was there (and was perhaps the man in charge) when the NWC twice attacked the HBC’s Green Lake post — once on December 21, 1816, and then on March 17, 1817, when the HBC post was plundered. But I think these incidents are coming up in the next post.
So there’s the beginning of Ogden’s Green Lake adventures. There is more to come.
The overland route to the North Saskatchewan River lay through Green Lake and Beaver River. In 1815, the HBC clerk John Lee Lewes travelled from Lac Ile-a-la-Crosse to the HBC’s White Mud post on the North Saskatchewan River, carrying letters from Joseph Howse for James Bird. Lewes was accompanied on his cross country journey by James Spence, Andrew Setter, James Ross, John Flett, Patrick Cunningham, and Michael Reeney. Lewes and his men camped for the night in the Beaver River a short distance from Green Lake. After they had set up camp for the night, Ogden and four heavily armed NWC men encamped nearby. In the morning…
Mr. Lewes continued his Journey but had not proceeded far till Ogdon [sic] came running up to him and endeavoured to push him out of the road and said he was come to fight, turn out then said Mr. Lewes, I am ready: instead, however, of executing his challenge, Ogdon spoke to the Canadians in a language Mr. Lewes did not understand, on which the Canadians stripped themselves on the Ice and challenged Mr. Lewes’ men to fight, none of the latter however had the spirit to resent the insult offered them except Patrick Cunningham, who fought the stoutest of the Canadians but unfortunately proved too week and was obliged to relinquish the contest from having Dislocated his Thumb. During this Battle Mr. Lewes said something to encourage his man who was fighting. Mr. Ogdon took offence at this, some altercation ensued and Ogdon struck at Mr. Lewes who returned the blow and knocked Ogdon down. One of Ogdon’s men seeing this jumped on Mr. Lewes, sized him by the hair and struck him such a blow on the Eye that he immediately lost sight of it: Mr. Lewes’ men all looked on without making an attempt to assist their master. The remaining Canadians at length interfered, separated all combatants, each party dressed themselves and Mr Lewes continued his journey. Mr. Ogdon threatened to keep a watch on the River and wait Mr. Lewes on his return to Ile-a-la-Crosse to give him and his men a beating, saying that no servant of the Hudson’s Bay Company had any right to be in Beaver River and much more such unaccountable nonsense.
Which actually wasn’t true. The Charter of the HBC allowed them the monopoly in the territory where the waters flowed to Hudson Bay, and like it or not, the Churchill River flowed into Hudson Bay. But to continue — The argument between Ogden and Lewes was more violent than recorded in Bird’s letter, above. Ogden had challenged Lewes who told him that he was a clerk in the Hudson’s Bay Company. Lewes (who had come from a theatrical background) continued…
and I believe You hold a similar Situation in the North West Service: That Ogdon then exclaimed, “What do you reckon yourself a Gentleman like me, You Play actor Son of a B_h” and advanced on Mr. Lewes who told Ogdon to keep off and at length pushed Ogdon (who is a weak Man) over. Lewes was jumped by a NWC man who struck him in the eye, and when he stood up, bloodied and blind, Ogdon drew forth Pistols and challenged Mr. Lewes to fight, but a Canadian jumped between Mr. Lewes and Ogdon, said there should be no more fighting and obliged Ogdon to be quiet.
I do know that at Athabasca Lake, when Governor Simpson was there in winter 1820-21, the Canadians who worked for the NWC were so disgusted with their gentlemen’s ungentlemanly behaviour that they acted as spies on their own company, telling Simpson the company’s secrets. Was this the beginning of the contempt for their bourgeois? One hopes so. But the fight is not yet finished: when it was done and the HBC men were either silenced or defeated, the NWC men”went away triumphantly hooping and hallowing like a party of savages who had recently butchered their Enemies.”
When Lewes arrived at the HBC’s White Mud Post, James Bird did all he could to keep him safe on his homeward journey. To prevent Ogden’s men from assaulting Lewes on his return journey to Lac Ile-a-la-Crosse, Bird arranged that three men from his own post accompany him [Lewes] until he was well past Green Lake. He also wrote a letter to John Stewart McFarlane, who must have been in charge of the HBC post at Green Lake. “You must of course act as Your own prudence and feelings may suggest,” Bird told McFarlane, “But if the occasion will admit of such measure I could desire that You seize the Contemptible Villain and convey him a prisoner to Mr. Howse or Paint River as You may find most expedient.” (Paint River House, later Fort Vermilion, was on the North Saskatchewan River east of the two White Mud posts.)
It appears that in short order, McFarlane took Peter Skene Ogden prisoner and was reportedly on his way to the HBC’s White Mud post. James Hughes, the man in charge of the nearby NWC post (also called White Mud), complained to James Bird.
Mr. Hughes read to me part of Ogdon’s Letter, according to which it appears that Mr. McFarlane has not acted according to the Instructions I gave him in my letter of the 5th inst. [March], for by Ogdon’s account he was taken at the Gates of his House and at a time when he had only a single Man at home. Mr. Hughes complained of the way in which Ogdon was taken and disclosed his determination to attempt to rescue him by force unless to prevent the probable consequences of such a mission I would consent to release him. I replied that it had not been my decision for Mr. McFarlane to seize Ogdon unless Mr. McFarlane and party should themselves be interrupted or insulted by him, and that if the affair was as Mr. Ogdon represented it, I would order him to be released immediately.
And so, on March 31, Ogden arrived at the HBC’s White Mud post “where it appeared from the Account of Angus McKay, as well as from Mr. McFarlane’s letter, that Ogdon had been taken in the way related by Mr. Hughes. Mr. Carswell gave up the prisoner,” and Ogden returned to Green Lake.
It was probably a good idea that Bird prevented a battle between the two companies, who lived in two separate company posts that shared a wall or palisade. The two companies often shared such close locations to protect themselves from the warlike First Nations people who lived in the region, who would travel some distance to attack an isolated and unprotected post. But can you imagine a battle between two posts that shared a common wall? One group of men could literally completely isolate their opponents in their houses by shooting into their fort from the top of the wall — a fearful thought.
Ogden’s harassment of the HBC men in the Green Lake region continued unabated, and it worsened. James Ross complained to James Bird of treatment he had received from Ogden and his men.
He says that as he, Andrew Setter, and James Spence were proceeding to Ile a la Crosse they met Mr Peter Ogdon and six Canadians who were returning from that place to Green Lake. On meeting Ross, who was walking first of his party, Ogdon went up to him and asked him how far he had to go, to this Ross answered that he hoped he had not much farther to go as he believe the Isle a la Crosse to be near, upon which Ogdon exclaimed “You Sons of B_h_s did I not order you to come this way no more (alluding to what he said to James Spence whom he forced to leave Green Lake). Ross replied it was true he had forced one of his companions to leave Green Lake without fulfilling the object of his Journey, but that he was determined to execute the order he had received from his Master. Ogdon then said to Ross back You rascal or I will send you back. Ross said that he would not go back, upon which Ogdon seized him by the Hair, while two Canadians held his arms, and calling him and his Companions rascals and sons of B_h_struck him several times on the Face. The two Canadians who were holding Ross had now got his Gun from him and left him, upon which he extricated himself from Ogdon’s grasp with the loss of part of his hair, ran to the Frenchman who had his Gun, snatched it out of his hands and then went to a little distance determined he says to defend himself if Ogdon dared again to approach him.
By the time Ross escaped from his beating, however, Ogden was already punishing another man who was being held by two NWC men. Ogden struck him in the eye and shouted at him and called him a Son of a Bitch. Its very interesting that all these NWC men attacked the eyes of the HBC men, which would immediately put them out of commission, of course. This unfair fight must have ended here, with two HBC men bloody and wounded, and the NWC men once again celebrating their success.
The information for this post is taken mostly from: Edmonton House Post Journals, Correspondence & Reports, 1806-1821, edited with an introduction by Ted Binnema and Gerhard J. Ens, and published by the Historical Society of Alberta.
As far as Peter Skene Ogden’s story is concerned, the worst was yet to come. I will tell you the further stories of Peter Skene Ogden’s time at Green Lake in a future post, which when written, will appear here: https://nancymargueriteanderson.com/whatever-i-call-it/
If you want to go back to the first post in this series, then go here: https://nancymargueriteanderson.com/peter-skene-ogden/
This will probably never be a book. I won’t live long enough to write and publish it, and I have projects ahead of this one. This is, for me, personal interest.
Copyright, Nancy Marguerite Anderson, 2026. All rights reserved.